Episode Transcript
This isn't just a podcast, it's a reminder. A reminder of what makes America Stronger isn't a headline or a hashtag. It's people from the ones building our homes to the ones rebuilding their lives, veterans, tradesmen, neighbors and volunteers, real people doing real things. Here we find common ground first, and then we work on our differences.
This is the collective perspective podcast where purpose, people, and progress mean. Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Collective Perspective podcast. This is Jeff and I'm here with my buddy Trav. What's up, Travis? Hey, what's up everybody? Glad to be back. And this episode is called Power versus Control.
There's a lot to unpack in this one. It could be a difficult topic. Have you, can you think back to a time of either when you had power.
W uh, can you think back to a time when you had confidence restraint or faith in something, but on contrast that with times that you felt that you needed to micromanage or force something,
basically, when have you felt most powerful? When have you felt most powerful? Yeah. I, I, that's with confidence. With confidence is when you're talking about a subject that you are passionate about and have a deep knowledge of. For me, it's obviously with my background in healthcare, I know a lot about.
Disease processes and healthcare and, and ways to fight certain diseases and you know how to take care of yourself. I might not look like it because I, I let myself go every once in a while, but that's, that's my own. That's my own fault, but when I'm talking to somebody and trying to explain something or I'm actually teaching them something that they didn't know before, that's when I feel probably, I'd say more powerful because I'm imparting a knowledge that they don't have.
Yeah, I would say so too. I, I would say that you could feel a sense of power over someone that's serving you. Maybe, uh, serving you food at a restaurant, you have a sense of power over them, but in a way, they also have a sense of power over you, right? 'cause they're like, look, you're not gonna eat until I give it to you.
Well, I, I don't see that as like a power dichotomy there to, to me, I don't know, maybe that's just a bad, uh, you know, I'm, I'm benefiting them and they're helping me. Uh, I think that's, uh, the duality of that. That, that, that is a specific relationship that's different than, uh, a boss in a, in a, in a worker type of thing, in my opinion.
Well, in a way you're hiring them to handle your food. Right. But yeah, uh, I mean, you definitely feel more powerful. W with your kids, right? Yeah. Powerful with the kids because you're teaching them. Uh, that's, that's our role as parents is to be, uh, kind of a dual edge there and control and have power over them.
So the other part of it was like, but then when did you feel the need? Sometimes? Uh, maybe something you had to micromanagement or force something happening. Uh, again, with my work, it's all about processes and steps and coming to, uh, the most likely solution. Uh, and when you're trying to teach somebody and let them make.
Some mistakes and still get to the same end point. But I, I think when I, I will step in and start to micromanage when it's not going as quickly as I think it should. I, that's good point. Get a little impatient. I think that's what I said. That was a good point. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. Uh, I would, I would step in to micromanage, uh, I guess.
When it comes to my work, I don't really have to micromanage anyone per se. Uh, I would, I guess the best example I would have would just be with my kids. You know, like, uh, just simple things like, Hey, I need you to fold these clothes, and then they'll do it, right? And so then. I try to, I try to turn that situation into, let me show you this time or with this one, and then have them show it back to me.
And I, I guess their dexterity or their, uh, hand-eye coordination isn't quite there with certain techniques that you use, say for folding clothes even, you know, um, that frustrates me when I see them not doing it as I showed them, but they haven't learned it yet. I gotta remind myself.
So what would you say is the difference between personal power and personal control? Ooh, personal power and personal control. You want me to get help you a little bit? Yeah. 'cause uh, when I hear personal control, I think maybe self-control. Basically how the true power often comes off from within calm, under pressure, knowing your values while control comes with fear or ego.
Um, I'm not, tie this into social media, parenting and, um, workplace dynamics. Let here, here's a conversation that we can start with. Why do you think control equals leadership? Or do you think control equals leadership? Um. Uh, there's, there's a time and place for different types of leadership and some, some authoritarian leadership is needed in emergent situations.
Do this, do this now. Uh, that's not a long-term strategy for, say, mental health in the workplace. It's more of a, i, I I think that's about the only time when control. For me in my, in my line of work would be, leadership is in those emergent times when there's a clear plan and a path and there has to be somebody saying the steps of the process.
So I'm a sound tech engineer for a church and I have two teenage pupils now that are wanting to learn the trade, and I believe in hands-on. So it's like, here you go, you get the drive. I'm gonna show you and at points I'm going to step in and take over, uh, if you're falling behind in what I need you to do.
But, uh, interesting thing is my son said, wow. Uh, as I sat back and let that person control things was, uh, you don't have to do anything now. And I said, well, and that's what kind of ties into this topic here is like, no. I have control with confidence that I'm in control here and I'm allowing this other person to, to control things physically, but ultimately, if it came down to something, I would have full control.
So power and control, they're not necessarily good, bad, or, you know, all good or all bad. There's, there's different types of control. Um, well being controlling of someone else, that's a whole different thing. But we're talking about like, and yes, you are kind of controlling those people in a way. You are not controlling in a way that like.
There's no benefit to either party. Uh, well, you're, one thing is you're teaching 'em something. Correct. So, especially in a teaching, you know, scenario, like you have to be powerful because you're the one that's in control. You're the leader of, you're the leader of what's happening right now. If something goes wrong, it's on you, but you give control to someone else.
Even though you're still in control, you can have a whole team of people like your scenario, right? So you go out there and you like, you teach 'em this is how it should be done. Or maybe you step in of occasionally and go, Hey, I saw that you were doing this. You need to do it this way. You still have control, but you're, you're given, I don't know, man, this is like a play on words, but you're actually giving them the control and the power of the situation, even though ultimately you have overall control and power.
Right. Uh, and, and that's, that's a, I think that's what I mean by they're not opposites of each other. Right. You know? Um. So when, when have I felt, you know, there's, there's another type of power as well. You know, like when someone walks into a room and ev it's like all eyes on them immediately. Uh, they, they have this certain aura about them or presence, how they carry themselves confidently.
Uh, so when, when that person walks in the room, they, you know that they have something important to say. Would that be more in line with the, the power, like the silent power, or is that a Uh, yeah, I would say so. Okay. And but it, it can be good or bad though, depending on how that person wields that power, right?
Yeah. Well, I mean, if we're talking about us, I would imagine that most of the power that we use is for good. We're not trying to hurt people, but yeah, there are people out there that would use it in a different way. Manipulative or, um, fraudulently, if you will. Yeah, yeah. Without getting political, we're gonna discuss how society tends to react to fear with control, new rules, censorship, regulations.
How much of this is necessary? What happens when people don't trust one another? Can you think of any examples where we overcorrected as a society. Hmm. Without getting political. Yeah. Have fun with that. Overcorrected as a society,
I think, well, I don't know if this pertains to it, but like I've always said, that you can only make so many laws. Because people that don't obey laws don't follow 'em. So like what laws are you actually creating? Uh, and that's to control people that actually do follow laws. So I don't know if that, uh, that could be, uh, are we overcorrecting?
Um, as a society? I think, um, I think we go through different presidents that have different. I don't know if they're all DI don't know if any of 'em, well, there's some differences in some of, a lot of them, but, uh, whether you like or dislike someone. But, um, are we overcorrecting? I I think that maybe, maybe the, uh, no, I was gonna say maybe something to do with Cracker Barrel, but no.
Oh, well, I guess kind of in a way, um, nature has a balance. It likes to be, um, right in the middle. So if something goes too far to the upper bottom or left or right, it will always come back to center at some point. Um, and it may not be quickly, but I, I do, I do feel that no matter what course of act action we take to correct something, it will come back to a more median or natural point of balance.
Yeah, but I was trying to think of like what, what in society we've been overcorrected. Yeah. Okay. I mean, I know we're talking to each other, but like, Hey, if you're listening to this podcast, put it down in comments below where have a society, and I guess if you want to talk, I, I guess AI to be overcorrected.
Um, I was trying to think of a scenario where. There was a law. Oh, okay. There we are. Politics again,
kind of a political little topic here. I mean, uh, politics. Well, is it, and, and in dates everything. Uh, you know, who has control over us? Who has power over us right now? The ones in the office seem to be Well, it's true. It's true. And they always say power. Correct. Powers with money. Money is power. Right?
It's money. Power. Um, money is influence. Money is control influence. I'm kind of confused what's power and what's control now. I like the first part of what we were gonna start talking about, you know, how society reacts to fear with control. I mean, this is, I, I, I don't think there's a way to get around talking about the political divide with this topic.
Um, especially with. You know, fear and control. Um, I'm sorry man, I want to have control of the conversation. I'm just kidding. Uh, recently in the news we had another big shooting, uh, where a couple of, hold on. What the, you know, where there were some, uh, what was it? Some people were unloved young ones. And it's very sad and it's very fearful that this could happen anywhere.
Uh, so I think we gen generally tend to overreact with a knee jerk with tighter controls on things. Um. For instance, gun control. People want more tighter laws on that. Uh, but is that really where the, where the answer is? Um, again, they're using that fear to push people to say, yes, we want this control. Now, I would say even immigration is a restraint on allowing people to cross the border.
Yeah, it is, it's, it's expensive, you know, to become a citizen. And I've had family members, many family members actually have, have done it, and it's taken a long time, but they did it the right way. And they're, you know, they're, they're thankful that they did.
But, uh, yeah, fear. Is used a lot to gain more control. Yeah, I'm glad you said that right there because I believe, I don't know, have you ever had a boss or, I don't know. I've had a previous boss before without incriminating myself, that fear was his way of getting you to do something. So the way that he showed.
His power, I guess, was that, you know, he, he was the leader and he controlled by fear. And I would, I would take it the fear because I was an assistant, so he would threaten, do all these, you know, say all these things. And, um, then I would go out there. And at first I would go out there and get, put the same, uh, put the same fear into other people.
But then I started to realize like, man, I don't want to be like this anymore. And this kind of goes back to, uh, our last episode, you are what you eat. So I was able to take what I was being fed right. And then, but when I brought it to the attention of my subordinate. It was in a different way, and that was, I'm not going to try to control you with my power over fear.
I said, Hey, I'm getting really like hammered in there and threatened and all this kind of stuff. I really hate feeling this way. Could you help me out and just do this for me, please, today I'll help you. If there's anything I could do, let's just like focus on getting this done today. Um, let's just do it together.
Okay. We don't need to, I don't need to threaten you. Right? And that made the world difference because the person actually said, okay, let's do it. Versus like, turning around effing blah, blah, blah. You know, mumbling under their breath, why I gotta do this and doing the task, but kinda. Pardon my language, but half-assed in the task and still not completing it to the proper standards.
And that's kinda like where fearmongering comes to people in society. People on social media, they take fear as a, as a sense of control. They don't have any power over someone, but they, they feel that they have to have the control or they have a sense of control, or maybe they just do it because they're a jerk.
Yeah, that's probably it too. But some of 'em want to have some type of control. They want to control you by causing fear. So you act this way or you think this particular way. Now, does that equate to trust though having control over someone? Does that mean you trust them or that they have your trust? I think, I think if you use your power correctly, then you'll gain trust.
And you'll have control. But if you try to, uh, manage someone or something by fear, you know, so it's like even your dog, you know, if I had a dog, um, your dog, if you just constantly like treat that thing like it's scared of you and it should be scared of you to give your readers to be scared of you. It's always going.
It is not gonna trust you. No it won't. I agree. A dog is like the simple, most beautiful thing in the world, man. I'm like, if a dog loves you, you, I almost say you're probably a good person. If that dog don't like you, man, I don't know. It's either you're a bad person or you're timid around them and they know it.
'cause dogs can sense that stuff. They can sense fear Dogs. Yeah, and they're, I think they're a good judge of character most of the time. And cats, I don't know, man, cats are outta control. I, I'm, I have passion for cats, but I just definitely cannot stand them. I would definitely like to neutralize the ones in my yard somehow.
I always thought like, man, it wouldn't be, you know, back in Spain, man, where they had like glass at the top of the. The fences and stuff like that. Oh my God. Nothing was getting, you know what, I don't, I don't think I saw that the last time I was there. Really? I all, yeah, I, I, because I, I went out on the town and I, I jog around the cities, charge the glass on top of the brick to keep, to keep people from jumping the fences, people or something.
Zombies or something. Right. I don't think cutting a zombie like that would help keeping the birds off the fence. Hey, Trav, have you ever had to release control to find peace? Uh, yeah. I've got, uh, a prime Besides your loins
that applies? Uh, yeah, I guess, uh, no. Um. It was back when I was in San Diego, we were on a, uh, off-roading trip and I, uh, you know, my car was still fairly new. Uh, I, I say new. It was already like 10 years old at that time. Uh, but it, it was in great shape, no scratches. The paint was awesome on it, and it was a beautiful, well, let's tell 'em, you left it in the States while you went to Spain, so when you came back it was like.
Almost like a brand new truck like four years later. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that, that did happen. But uh, no, it was, um, it's kinda like going back in time. We went, we went on on this off road trip and we were expecting some. Minor, uh, well, some pin striping. And if you don't know what that is, that's, uh, the bushes on the side of the, uh, trail when they are, when they're overgrown, they scratch the side of your car.
It's Arizona pin striping they call it. Um, but, uh, I, I had my car all, all decked out, mag body protection on all the paint so it wouldn't get scratched up. And then, uh, next thing you know, we're going down trails and the body paneling got ripped off. The, the protective paneling got ripped off, and the, at that point, I, I couldn't control that.
My car wasn't gonna get scratched at this point. I just had to say, all right. Uh, it is what it is and let's just move forward to get through the obstacle. So everybody keeps moving. And after that I was like, all right, it's just scratches. They come out, they buff out, and sure they did. Uh, but yeah, you had to forfeit some control there just to find a little bit of peace and have a little more enjoyable time.
I mean, it's kinda obvious that you didn't have to do that and your car wouldn't have got scratched. That's, that's so, yeah, I brought it on myself. But, uh, that kind of stress and, and problem solving though, is I, I think was a great, um, experience for me in general. Well, it is a material thing and nobody was gonna die.
I think maybe those are the things logically you're thinking in your head, right. Well, that same, hey, I mean, you know, I'll still be able to drive outta here. Um, always, well, that same trip, I almost wasn't able to drive out. I started sliding down the side of a mountain Oh wow. In the car. Uh, losing control at that point.
Uh, com literally. Uh, but no, we had to trust that the team that we had there, uh, would be able to get us out of that scenario. And sure enough, it was not a big issue. Uh, but it was, it was, uh, pretty hairy. 'cause those, uh, desert mountains at the base of some of the arroyos over there are very soft sand. So when you get in an area where, uh, the, it is just starting to slip down the side of the mountain, you're.
Uh, the pucker factor gets pretty high. So it looks like true power. Looks like clarity, patience and values, not necessarily control. Yes, I, I agree with that statement. Was there anything that you wanted to hold tighter? Um, or that, or what you, or what do you want to let go of? Is there anything that you wanna hold tighter to?
Yeah, we, you know, we just sent a, a kid off to college and that's how, that's a, that's a big move. And it's, I was asking you, uh, how you felt about it, how you were coping with that. Uh, were you emotionally. And like upset at all. Do I get, did I get emotionally upset? Not really. Um, because, you know, 18 years it's eventually gonna happen.
Um, and she's not the type of girl, like at the end of the 18-year-old 18 years are like, thank God she left. No, no. Even, even, you know, both of our kids. Yeah. If they, if they want to venture out, let 'em venture out. Old enough, and we feel we've given them enough knowledge to tackle the world successfully.
Um, but yeah, you don't want to give it up though. Uh, it's that, uh, maybe it's more of a protection type of thing. It's my, she's my baby girl. He's my, he's my little boy. Mm-hmm. You know, you don't wanna let them, let 'em go that easy. Uh, but to, to cope with it. Good communication with them. You know, honest, frank, communication.
My daughter, she texts me a, a good bit and lets me know what's going on. If she has any issues, she'll, she'll call me, talk to her mom, same way. So, you know, I think we've, uh, done good there. And yes, it's, it's letting go. I'm trying to step back and let her make her own mistakes, eh, because mistakes are gonna be made.
Well, technology doesn't make it easier. Uh, I remember leaving the house and uh, it just seemed like, see ya. Uh, I'd call every once in a while and write, you know, but these days have your cell phone, your computer, your communication device, like write in your hand. And it's easy to. Have longer distance relationships that, that you could still have somewhat sense of power.
I mean, you'll always be powerful to your daughter in her eyes, but, uh, you are losing control of her. She, she's eventually gonna have her own control. And you can't tell her, Hey, you shouldn't do this. You can advise, you can say it all you want, but your power is gone at that point. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, maybe, you know, she finds a young man and they.
You know, get married and stuff like that. You definitely lost control and power at that point, even though some parents still hold onto it, man. I mean, they, they try to. Yeah. Um, it's crazy. I think that's when it becomes intrusive, that power. Yeah. Um, you know, shoot, just before you were talking about. Um, technology has made it easier for us.
I'm still pretty tough on that. My dad doesn't text, but he likes to call and just before this, uh, show, he called and that's what he, yeah, he, the first thing he said. Just calling to see if any of my kids are still alive. 'cause he hadn't heard from me in a little bit. But, um, you know, we get tied up in our own day to day that we forget those that aren't in our constant purview.
Um, we don't reach out to them like we should, uh, even though we have them at the, at our fingertips. So that's something that I gotta do better. We need to end the episode here, but, uh, I wanted to leave you with the, uh, this last thing or like. What you're holding on to is not yours to carry sometimes. And I think, um, to go along with, uh, what you are is what you eat.
Um, what you tolerate is a different thing too. Um, because you can tolerate intaking these certain things, but at some point you have, uh. To stop the intolerance of it, otherwise you're just tolerant. Um, but then tolerance is also a control factor, right? Um, tolerance is having power too, because you could have the power to restrain, to tolerate something that you don't like.
And, uh, so in the next episode we're gonna talk about the paradox of tolerance. And uh, it's gonna be an interesting one. So. Just know that, uh, we wanna know if you've been listening, so if you can comment down below and say, uh, chicken and bananas. No. Uh, what is it? I forget what the kids say. What did you say that the Oh, about the tea?
Yeah. Spilling the tea or gossip.
Come on, spit it out. So if you've been listening, put in the comments below, spill in the T. Uh, let us know that you've been listening to the episode. We'd appreciate it. Please comment, like, subscribe, share, let somebody else know if this is benefiting you or if it would benefit someone else that you know.
Or maybe it helps you win an argument of like, what? True control and power really means. Yeah. Let us be, uh, your fact checkers. Yeah. And then they, uh, they can hate us all they want, but hey, anything, uh, thanks for watching. We hope you enjoyed this episode. We hope you learned from it. Uh, let's make America stronger and not weaker.
Let's just stop arguing. Um, I think that gives a lot of control and power to people that don't need it, and that's what they're after. Control power.
